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Shannon cleverly suggested this topic in an earlier thread, so I'm stealing it.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 19, 2005 - 3:34 PMBwahaha!!!
The Bible. Completely incoherent, repetitive, utterly amoral. All the stories have lousy endings.
Shakespeare: plagiarist who wrote stuff in the teenspeak of the day just to make a buck. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 19, 2005 - 3:51 PMThousands of scholars just uttered a collective gasp.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 19, 2005 - 4:46 PMI like the sleeping with your sister and the servants stuff. Also, don't tell me the story of Lot's daughters didn't give you a little surprise when you first heard it. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 6:49 PMHorrifying story, "Yes, have the mob take my virgin daughters to do what they will instead of these two strangers who came into town tonight."
What *was* up with that and what are we supposed to take from that part of the story? Have a few daughters so you can throw them to the human wolves if need be when they come to the door? I don't see how Lot was moral in this case, it seems like maybe the most moral thing would have been to offer himself up for the sacrifice and not someone else. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, September 9, 2005 - 7:33 AMThe Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous sort of has the same effect on me as a product of Buchmanism.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, January 30, 2008 - 6:28 PMHave you seen brick? Teenspeak can be done brilliantly.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Mon, August 22, 2005 - 4:35 PM
I hate Steppenwolf. Yes, we're animals, yes we're intellectual beings, human nature encompasses both, get the fuck over it! sheesh.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Mon, August 22, 2005 - 4:54 PMDreiser's An American Tragedy. Was his editor off drunk with the Algonquin crew that week?
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 2:20 AMAnything by the Brontes.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 10:39 AMNooooooooooo! ;-o
The Brontes are weird and wonderful! -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 11:25 AMDo you have an amusing, reductive reason why they suck, or do you just not like them?
I personally think the whole neurotic family should have gotten out of the house more. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 1:55 PMThe writing was stilted, the subjects dreary and depressing and I hated all the characters in the books. The whole "gothic romance" thing was lost on me, I felt like what passed for "love" in those books were a horrible perversion of the idea.
That's about it. Hated the characters, hated the writing, hated the plot. I'm not sure if there's anything else one could dislike in a book other than to take offense at the paper it's printed on, the cover art or the way it's bound. :)
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 2:20 PMChia, you have just utterly encapsulated my feelings for Henry James and Victorian styled romance novels
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 24, 2005 - 3:52 PMi completely agree. _Wuthering Heights_ was one of the worst "classics" i have ever read. hated the characters, and then they all died and it wasn't even cathartic. bleah. and the one i read had crappy cover art too. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 8:38 AMI'll agree on Wuthering Heights and raise you The Scarlet Letter. For approximately the same reasons. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Tue, September 6, 2005 - 12:42 PMI'll see your Scarlett Letter and raise you any work by Dickens
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Tue, September 6, 2005 - 1:23 PMDickens: paid by the word... That's all I have to say.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 12:41 PMI'll see you the Bronte's and Hawthorne and raise you Emerson. The whole lot of them were a bunch of boring stodgy old colonials with sticks up their asses.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, September 9, 2005 - 7:31 AMI love the Brontes too.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 12:27 AMAtlas Shrugged. I recall a half-baked soap opera chock fulla rants. Come to think of it, the story might have been interesting if the characters mouthing such invective were Luke and Laura. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 9:28 AM"Atlas Shrugged" is only a classic if you're a crazy-eyed, Alan-Greenspan-worshipping libertarian free market fundamentalist libertarian wingnut, or someone heading up the scale in that direction.
Ayn Rand. Ugh.
Ob sucky classics: I will add Ethan Frome to the list. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 12:36 PMAgreed! I particularly love the part about "free love" for the heroine in that book. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 2:35 PMJust realized I was frothing at the mouth so badly whilst ranting about Rand that I used the word "libertarian" twice.
Hot button? Anyone? :-) -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 2:51 PMI have to admit, however, and embarassing as this is to admit, I found the sadomasochistic sex scenes in Rand's novels really hot when I first read them. You just don't get that in many other novels you read at age 16, back in 1976. Well, except for the ones I pilfered from my dad's night stand, but that's different....
More classics hatage. Jane Austen leaves me cold. I simply don't care about any of her social-climbing middle-class characters and their troubles, and her writing style is, to me, tiresomely arch. I tend to like the movie revisions of her novels though. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 2:57 PMI have to agree with Shannon - I am not a big fan of Jane Austen either. I enjoyed some of the movies or TV series, but seen them once was enough. My mother and sisters *love* her books and watch the films obsessively. We do not "get" each other and thankfully avoid the subject anymore. :)
Helen. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 3:41 PMone jane austen will do ya. after the first you read, the rest is redundant. she never deviated from her plot much: bunch of sisters, one is strong-willed. there's bound to be a weak-willed one, who will fall prey to the seemingly nice guy, but turns out to be the villain. meantime, there's lots of tension between the (strong-willed) heroine and the seemingly suspicious (but really nice) hero. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 3:45 PMOwwwww, y'all are killing me :-(
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 3:51 PMsorry, i left out one last thing on austen plots: the strong-willed girl and the seemingly evil (but really good) guy live happily ever after, after much victorian love friction. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:15 PM>> happily ever after, after much victorian love friction.
Regency love friction, actually ;-o -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:16 PMi stand corrected. apologies to ms. austen.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:58 PMAdmittedly very true about Jane Austen. I find them to be lighthearted reads though and can't say that they suck. My fav. adaptation has to be the BBC's Pride and Prejudice with Colin Firth (he was tasty in that series). -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 5:04 PMfavorite jane austen adaptation is emma thompson's "sense and sensibility." she did a good job.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:21 PMSince this a "classics that suck" thread, I won't belabor why I love the ones you guys are hatin' on. I'll just say I find Jane Austen hilariously funny ... and the Brontes? That was some subversive shit for the time. Critics despised them for being women who wrote "coarse" stories that were much more explicit about people's emotions and sexual yearnings than was deemed proper. So love them or hate them, they were some radical minds.
Ayn Rand, on the other hand ... yegh. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:39 PMi'll second on ayn rand.
i'm also starting "villette" again. heard it was good. we'll see. for the record. i did love "jane eyre" but was lost on "wuthering heights." -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:54 PMMaybe you could report back later on "Villette"? I'm curious what you'll make of it. It's another one I love, but it's difficult going in some bits -- emotionally wrenching. And there are some religious themes that some readers find hard to sit through. Did you start it previously? -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 5:03 PM"Maybe you could report back later on "Villette"? I'm curious what you'll make of it. It's another one I love, but it's difficult going in some bits -- emotionally wrenching. And there are some religious themes that some readers find hard to sit through. Did you start it previously? "
yes, i started reading it a long, long time ago. i was a different person then. so, i thought, after some rave reviews on the "i just finished reading" tribe, that i would pick it up again. i didn't get very far. but i thought i'd plough through again. i'm quite familiar with the genre, so the religious themes or any social mores won't be difficult for me. i just hope i get through the first pages i didn't get through this time. i'll get back to you and let you know. haven't read a "classic" in a while, so it should be an interesting exercise.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 5:42 PMMr. Darcy makes me swoon, mostly on paper, but I'd take Colin Firth, in a pinch. ;)
"It is some time now since I have considered Miss Eliza Bennett the most handsome woman of my acquaintance." (paraphrased as I shockingly don't have a copy)
I have read almost all of Jane Austen's, but I haven't seen them all as I hate it when they bollocks up books I love.
The Brontes...I always wanted to slap Jane Eyre silly and tell her to get the pretty dresses, fer crying out loud.
It took me two and a half Ayn Rand books before I gave up in disgust at her fascism. I didn't mind the one about the railroad so much, but the architect one nearly gave me apoplexy before I put it away. I have friends who like it, and that gives me the willies. I'm petrified to watch Gary Cooper in The Fountainhead, as I fear I may lose respect. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 26, 2005 - 8:41 AMIt's all about Colin Firth. I actually loved the P&P miniseries so much I watched it three times in a row.
P&P is my favorite book of hers and I too don't have a copy on hand...so I can only vaguely quote my favorite line in it, which is that when one enjoys the company of the same people for a long period of time, they remain interesting because they are always changing. Something like that.
I do agree, if you've read one Austen, you've read them all.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 1:15 PMRight. I shuddered every time one of the "heroes" opened his mouth. If you skip the massive 42-page sermons about money, the book is actually only about a hundred pages long. It was sort of funny to watch it implode near the end, though, what with all the pulpy goodness about superweapons and heroes who can resurrect themselves from the dead through sheer willpower.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 4:45 AMTropic of Cancer, Tropic of Capricorn, Sexus, Plexus, Nexus, and any other rambling, self-glorifying, cheap-shock-mongering volumes that Henry Miller happened to crap out along the way.
Also: Anne Bronte. Why? Weren't Charlotte and Emily enough? -
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Thu, August 25, 2005 - 9:13 AMI agree about the Millers, but for some reason I love William Burroughs.. go figure. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 8:09 PM"I agree about the Millers, but for some reason I love William Burroughs.. go figure."
They're both precusors and perhaps betters of the coming beat generation.
Which remnds me, Kerouac's On the Road was a bore.
I'll take Burrough's Soft machine or Wild Boys any day. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 12:54 PMAgreed the Millers suck, but Burroughs?!?! Please, the crazy old fag was such a bad writer he had to cut up his writing and rearrange it just to make it vaguely interesting. Even Kerouac's sorry, whining, passive aggressive, sexually confused, morally ambiguous, drunken self could write better than Burroughs. I even kinda enjoyed a couple of Kerouac's books at points which is more than I can say about Burroughs. For that matter I'll take Bukowski over any of the beat writers any day.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 26, 2005 - 4:48 AMWell, Burroughs was doing something interesting with language and structure. As a structure nerd, I can appreciate that. I think that, in Miller, the author-as-character business completely cut him off from any psychological insight. His characters are two-dimensional and his voice is grating. It's like going on a blind date with a Tourette's victim, or a grown-up version of that little boy in kindergarten who got attention by flipping his eyelids inside out and pretending to eat worms. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 26, 2005 - 10:09 PM"Well, Burroughs was doing something interesting with language and structure. As a structure nerd, I can appreciate that. I think that, in Miller, the author-as-character business completely cut him off from any psychological insight. His characters are two-dimensional and his voice is grating. It's like going on a blind date with a Tourette's victim, or a grown-up version of that little boy in kindergarten who got attention by flipping his eyelids inside out and pretending to eat worms."
We're not going to agree on this, but that's ok.
My take is that Miller is doing something interesting with structure, specifically the non-linear timeline and interior monologue. I'm also going to quibble with your assertion that "the author-as-character business completely cut him off from any psychological insight" because the author as character is character no different from any 1st person character. In the end, it's all a conceit no matter how you slice it.
I can understand the annoyance of the voice as I have heard this many times, but I happen to like the voice mainly becasue of its brash crudeness. It is an American voice, not ugly, but lost and attempting to reconcile itself in Europe.
Who knows maybe i just like naughty little boys.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 8:04 PMI'm going to disagree about Miller. I really loved Tropic of Cancer though some of his other works you metioned aren't on my favorites list. It's all very self indulgent but I guess I fell for it.
Unfortunately, I'm a terrible judge as I'm in love with 1930s Europe ie. Miller, Isherwood's Berlin Stories, Celine's Death on the Installment Plan, etc. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, August 25, 2005 - 11:15 PMyou sound about 1930s Europe the way I feel about the Victorians: irrationally besotted. I wonder if every reader has an era that resonates with them more than any other, and why that might be -- nature, nurture, zub zub zub.
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Fri, August 26, 2005 - 4:58 AMWell, I love Anais Nin, but I felt that Miller's best work was a bigger, louder, splashier version of hers -- which is not surprising, considering that he copied passages her writing into his work wholesale while they were involved. His typical ploy went something like this: he told her that something wasn't "good enough" to make the final cut of a story, then copied it into his own evolving work. This is not uncommon in the history of literature - F. Scott Fitzgerald copied parts of Zelda's journals into his own stories, and some biographers argue that Lawrence's acute descriptions of female sexuality in Lady Chatterley's Lover owe more to his wife's diary than they do to his talent.
While we're on that note: Miller's Grand Guignol descriptions of the sex act are only a thin veil cast over a conservative, puritanical misogyny, and he can't write a convincing female character to save his life. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 26, 2005 - 8:54 AMThe Catcher in the Rye. - I just felt he was a whiny little bastard.
I really enjoyed Ayn Rand when I read it- and I'm glad I did. But I definitely don't think I could do it again. (The Simpsons where Maggie goes to the Ayn Rand School for Tots is brilliant).
I couldn't get through American Tragedy. And Ulysses by Joyce. -
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Fri, August 26, 2005 - 2:22 PMI agree with you on Catcher in the Rye, I never understood why I should care whether or not he gets into some girl's pants by the end of the book. Ok, so admittedly that is a rather surface way of looking at it but that fact coupled with the "feel so sorry for me" little boy/man thing... Yeah, I know what you mean. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, August 26, 2005 - 9:48 PMThe only reason I don't say Ayn Rand is because she's given me hours of honest amusement!
William Faulkner in toto. To anyone of even quasi-Southern heritage, most of him is pretty flyblown and thrice-told already. Same goes for Carson McCullers, but NOT for Flannery O'Connor or Tennesee Williams.
Norman Mailer's fiction is hideous, Thomas Pynchon and John Updike are boring and Martin Amis overrated, as was his pop Kingsley.
The entirety of American verse pre-Poe is god-awful. Emily Dickinson is drip-torture to me and Hart Crane worse. Robert Frost is an appalling gas-bag. I've never understood the Wordsworth thing, tho' I have Byron and Coleridge memorized by the yard. -
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Fri, August 26, 2005 - 9:52 PMThere are some gemlike passages in Kerouac, but I find most of him unreadable. Burroughs is better and Hunter Thompson better still.
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Sat, August 27, 2005 - 7:31 AM"Flyblown." What an exquisite word. "Appalling gas bag" is even more entertaining.
Ezra Pound was another appalling gas bag, while we're on poets. I have no idea why he was taught for awhile along with Yeats and Eliot (both of whom I could mock for awhile if it would make the Austen fans feel any better, since I love them both). Most of Pound's poetry, except for his short imitations of other people, is actively bad--ugly, grating, obscure without being enlightening. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sat, August 27, 2005 - 8:05 AMThe reason Pound was taught is that he and Eliot were arguably the best of the modernist American poets (even if they both yearned to be British, fake accent and all). Sections of the Pound's Cantos are exquisite.
The reason he is not taught today has nothing to do with his skill as a poet. He's not taught because he was a rabid anti-semite and fascist. His insanity later in life is also well documented. Nobody wants to touch him for these views and the fact that modernist poetry is hard going so why trudge through this difficult poet when undergrads don't care and grad students and many professors only want to talk about fiction and theory. It much easier to teach Eliot's "Love Song.." (and maybe the "Wasteland") and a few stories from Dubliners and call it a day.
What goes unnoticed is that Eliot too was a anti-semite and fascist, but has been largely forgiven. Although some poets like Ed Hirsch have written extensively on this topic.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sat, August 27, 2005 - 11:28 AMPound's broadcasts for Mussolini didn't sound British!
Ezra's verse has many fans in academe (and out), but there's not a lot of love for him. When I idly suggested in a history seminar that Pound's 14-year incarceration wasn't quite the best possible advertisement for the "freedom" available in Cold-War America, several formerly-reasonable people went berserk at once. It was quite instructive to see liberals volunteer to serve on the firing squad for a poet already dead.
He was a fascist lunatic of unusual ugliness who wrote a few beautiful lines in his Cantos. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sat, August 27, 2005 - 12:22 PM" Pound's broadcasts for Mussolini didn't sound British!"
Listen to some of his readings of the Cantos on tape. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sat, August 27, 2005 - 2:23 PMI've been trying to hold back, being that Hemmingway's picture is on the tribe. But, outside of "A Moveable Feast" he never got to me. I just found his prose self-indulgent and at times forced. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sun, August 28, 2005 - 1:47 AM>I've been trying to hold back
If it can make you feel better, you're not alone. At least you gave him more than one chance: I couldn't get past the unnerving feeling I got reading The Sun Also Rises's prose and characters.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sun, August 28, 2005 - 10:36 AMI loved "A Moveable Feast," too, but a friend of mine who happens to be a huge Hemingway fan says that it's not considered a "real" Hemingway book -- according to my friend, AMF is a half-finished manuscript that Hemingway intended to fictionalize and publish as a novel. I'm not sure how accurate that is (someone else who knows Hemingway better might want to shoot me down or back me up), but I found it his most fresh, compelling, and human book, probably because he hadn't put that Hemingway touch on it just yet. I love his work in bits and pieces, but I agree that he tends to be self-indulgent. I'd also argue that he's not quite ace in the characterization department. He tends to write caricatures and leave them hanging, without fully fleshing them out, though when he does go under their skins, it can be beautiful. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Mon, August 29, 2005 - 3:54 PM"according to my friend, AMF is a half-finished manuscript that Hemingway intended to fictionalize and publish as a novel"
i don't know whether that is true or not. but, it's possible, because it's different from the rest of his work. max perkins (in my opinion) was one of the best editors ever. it is possible that max had something to do with it. my favorite book of thomas wolfe's as "the web and the rock" and i read somewhere that max perkins put the book together and made sense of it. so it's highly feasible that he did the same with "a moveable feast."
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Fri, January 25, 2008 - 1:07 PM'The Sun Also Rises' was ok and I have a book of his short stories that's enjoyable, other than that Hemingway left me cold.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sat, August 27, 2005 - 2:25 PM(Off Topic, but)
Timothy Findley's _Famous Last Words_ is a favourite book of mine, which touches on Pound; the narrator is HS Mauberley, whom I always thought was entirely fictional on Findley's part, but a little Google shows me it's a character created by Pound, and title of one of his poems.
(poetry-deprived, mostly by choice) -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sat, August 27, 2005 - 3:47 PM"The only reason I don't say Ayn Rand is because she's given me hours of honest amusement."
Me too.
I was a big Rush fan back in the day, so of course I had to read Ayn Rand, and fell for it hook, line, and sinker.
I recently reread Atlas Shrugged. My Dad was reading it and I thought it would give us something to talk about. He didn't finish it and I struggled. Something I found helpful was to put all of the ranting, overacting, cardboard characters into an imaginary musical called "Dancing For Architecture". Every time someone went off on a longwinded rant, I would put it to music and imagine an elaborate dance number around it. The pages literally flew by. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sun, August 28, 2005 - 12:46 AMI completely understand you! I've always reacted to "Tom Sawyer" and "Time Stand Still" with the same sense of stunned hilarity I get out of Ayn Rand. Pomposity often makes it's own skewer...
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, January 25, 2008 - 1:04 PMSpeaking as as a southerner I have disagree with you about Faulker. I don't care for Ayn Rand. I do like some of Frost's work.
Other than that you're spot on. Mailer, Updike and Pynchon could bore the denizens of a morgue.
< The entirety of American verse pre-Poe is god-awful. Emily Dickinson is drip-torture >, lol very aptly put.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sun, August 28, 2005 - 1:57 AMDickens. Dusty, dry and dull. Have never managed to finish a single one of his books. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Sun, August 28, 2005 - 2:20 PMWhich Dickens did you attempt? I couldn't get through "Pickwick Papers", but was thoroughly engrossed with "Great Expectations". It took awhile to get the archaic writing style, but once I did, I couldn't put it down.
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Mon, August 20, 2007 - 10:41 AMI agree on Dickens, dull, dated and depressing. Also I had to read Dickens at school which was enough to turn me off the author for life.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Mon, August 29, 2005 - 4:17 PMTess of the d'Ubervilles is one big snore-fest. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Mon, August 29, 2005 - 4:19 PM"Tess of the d'Ubervilles is one big snore-fest."
There's something remiss in all of Hardy's female characters.
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Tue, August 30, 2005 - 9:07 AMI agree with Kitty on Dickens. I've had a really tough time trying to slog through all of the biggies, Great Expectations, David Copperfield, Oliver Twist...though I am somewhat fond of A Tale of Two Cities. But the others seem a bit soap opera-ish, or did the last time I read them, in college about 20 years ago. A friend tells me that most of them were originally serialized and are far more readable (and even enjoyable) if you read them in pieces. I keep meaning to try this...
I've been trying to read Pride and Prejudice for several months now. I'm sure it's witty and all, but I can't seem to keep track of the characters since each on seems to be called by different names depending upon the person who is speaking. Ugh. I haven't attempted any other Austen yet.
I rather liked the two Bronte books I read (Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights), though I'm not sure why. They are rather depressing and melodramatic. I can certainly understand someone NOT liking them! :-) I haven't attempted any of the family's other works. I must agree that those poor kids did need to get out of the rectory more! Jeez! -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Tue, August 30, 2005 - 10:55 AMI'm a huge Austen fan. I understand what you mean by keeping track of the names because in Pride and Prejudice for instance, there are 5 Ms. Bennetts, all sisters of course but I would say keep at it! I am one of those people who say "Read the book and then watch the movie" but if you get stuck, an excellent screen Version of P&P is A&E's Pride and Prejudice. If you get past P&P and maybe want to attempt more Austen, Emma is always a good one or Sense and Sensibility. I love Austen's strong flawed female characters!
Ditto on the Bronte books. A bit of a downer but great drama. You can tell those Bronte sisters didn't have a puppy growing up. :) -
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Tue, August 30, 2005 - 2:54 PMOh, but they did! According to one story, Emily spent an entire afternoon beating her dog, and then spent the next few weeks nursing it back to health. She must have been a blast at parties. -
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Tue, August 30, 2005 - 3:00 PMi prefer charlotte to emily anyway. -
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Tue, August 30, 2005 - 3:01 PMThat is hilarious! Where did you get that happy story? -
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Tue, August 30, 2005 - 11:50 PMI love Dickens, even the monstrosities like "Pickwick" (which should be approached as two novels, the first half comic, the second tragic), "Chuzzlewit" and "Our Mutual Friend." GK Chesterton was correct in observing he was nearly the last novelist who loved humanity enough to make such believeable people.
Does anyone else think Tom Wolfe the most overrated writer in America today? -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 31, 2005 - 9:39 AMT. Wolfe is definately overrated (but still good).
Whereas, his contemporary Hunter S. Thompson deserves his accolades.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, August 31, 2005 - 9:45 AMI haven't been able to make it through Wolfe's fiction, so you may be onto something there.... I read Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, though I can barely recall it since it was ages ago. But I know I actually finished it. I could only make it about half-way through Bonfire of the Vanities.
I intend to keep on trying with Austen, as I do like her writing, it was just making my head hurt trying to figure out to which Bennett daughter a person was referring... lol. I also intend to tackle Dickens again, but in installments as recommended by my friend. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 6:03 AMhey guys I'm sorry I couldn't get through reading the whole thread but as soon as I read the title I thought of Jane Eyre- I don't really see the difference between the plot of the book and some of cheapest romance novels today- the language is beautiful but the story seems shallow and empty
On another hand I've read someone mention Wuthering Heights- honestly I think that it's a little difficult to get through especially the first well.. half of the book but you get out of it a beautiful and passionate love story. I loved it
It's well written but it's also rich in how much you have to reflect through it on- it leaves an impression on you
"He wanted all to lie in an ecstasy of peace; I wanted all to sparkle and dance in a glorious jubilee. I said his heaven would be only half alive; and he said mine would be drunk: I said I should fall asleep in his; and he said he could not breathe in mine.."
"Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you - haunt me, then. The murdered do haunt their murderers. Be with me always - take any form - drive me mad. Only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you"
I loved it
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, February 1, 2008 - 5:38 AMBonfire of the Vanities was atrociously boring and badly written. Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test was really overrated but not bad. Some of Dickens I liked, some of it I could take or leave.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 11:15 AMThe Scarlet Letter! Man, I went through a two week depression while reading that book. I know that Hawthorne probably wanted the reader to feel that way, but I still hated every miserable page. And yet I read them all.
I actually find Rand comical (the courtroom rant in Atlas Shrugged makes me laugh it is so god-awful), although as literature (and political philosophy) it is complete garbage. I don't think I could be in a relationship with someone who thinks Rand is decent reading (or someone who molests wallabees - those are my two red flags).
Dickens was pretty bad as well (ToTC reads like a bad soap opera); it is definite bubble gum reading, which isn't so bad if you like bubble gum.
I wouldn't say Twain sucked, as he was amusing as a humorist, but I was never that impressed with his novels. Mark Twain was a fairly average story which somehow became a classic.
Every victorian/regency romance novel ever written also sucks foul, festering, caseous, necrotic bodily fluids through a twisty straw. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, September 8, 2005 - 12:39 PMWouldn't "festering, caseous (great word!), necrotic bodily fluids" be something like ichor?
Does that make HP Lovecraft a victorian romance novelist?
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Mon, August 20, 2007 - 8:58 AMI really did not like "Utopia" by Thomas More; maybe it's just because I would not want to live in the society that the book describes, but I just did not get into it.
I also have to agree to some extent about the bible: the misogynism in the text really gets on my nerves (except in certain books---I thought Judith was hardcore awesome, for example, and there are a few other passages that I like, mainly in "Wisdom" and "Song of Songs"). I know it was standard for the time, but it just really annoyed me A LOT. I also think that a lot of the text is easily misinterpreted by fundie radicals and is the cause for religious-inspired violence, prejudice, and hatred. I might be a bit biased since I'm a lapsed Catholic/agnostic and politically/socially liberal, but that's how I feel about it. It also drives me crazy that people take the bible (and other religious books) verbatim and ignore the spirit of the words. It's a very easy book to twist around to your own purposes.
I'm also not keen on most American writers, especially not today's writers. There are some exceptions of course (for example, Pound, Merwin, Faulkner, and Dickinson, among a handful of others), but for the most part I prefer writers from other places. America just doesn't seem to have it together creatively, artistically, qualitatively, or otherwise; few American creative endeavors measure up to those of other nations in my experience.
And I also agree about the Austen sisters: I go to an mostly-female college and they are the rage on campus; I think they're overrated and I could never really get interested in them. -
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Thread necromancy!
Mon, August 20, 2007 - 9:41 AMProbably less of an issue in an Anglo-Saxon environment, but I was subjected to this in high-school in France: Madame Bovary, by Flaubert. Simple plot, despicable and shallow main character (Emma, if you can't stand the guy who's financing your life while you're cuckolding him, then have the courage of your opinions, and draw the consequences, as unpleasant as they may be, rather than wallowing in self-pity masquerading as condescension!). OK, supposedly the language was well crafted, but the plots proved too numbering for me to appreciate the fancy footwork. -
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Re: Thread necromancy!
Mon, August 20, 2007 - 12:55 PMtoo numbing, not numbering - damn mental automatisms! -
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Re: Thread necromancy!
Tue, August 21, 2007 - 6:51 AMTo innumeracy and illiteracy, I'll always prefer insolvency. -
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Re: Thread necromancy!
Thu, August 23, 2007 - 2:57 PMwell, one persons trash is another someone's treasure. whenever i read a classic that sux i wunder if im just reading it at the wrong time. maybe im not mature or experienced enough to appreciate it.
ive read and hated most existentialist crud. most well known beat lit is not my cup of tea. Ayn Rand never did anything for me. Hesse is ok but never thought him a genius. Vonnegut only annoys me. i found miller to be underwhelming as well. thought Bukowski annoying. i was disappointed by wilde until some one told me what to read.
I like Hawthorne's short stories but haven't read scarlet letter yet. I've only read Flaubert's salambo and that kicked arse. i like the psalms from the bible. reminded me of meditations by aurelius enjoy a bunch of twain's shorts. haven't read one of his novels since elementary school. -
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Re: Thread necromancy!
Sun, August 26, 2007 - 5:50 PMOh, I am loving this thread. I don't post here because I now read only nonfiction, but I've read most of the classics in the past ,and I like to hear these perspectives!
I'm in agreement with rock star on most.
Ayn Rand .ughhh . She's no existentialist. She's a horney grandiose grandstander .
And I agree with Josh, I get totally different meanings from classics by reading them in different stages of life.
But I liked Wuthering Heights. Heathcliff was the worst stalker and Cathy was pathological, too. I hope they were NOT meant to be portrayed positively.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Tue, September 4, 2007 - 10:21 AMUtopia by Thomas More was probably meant to be a complicated satire to be published in a police state which, in an interesting twist, he was knighted for helping to run well and then beheaded for saying "no" to the leader of. I usually hate the idea (per New Historicism et al) of having to know a bunch of stuff in order to read something, but It certainly reads better that way. More himself couldn't have been happy in the "utopia" he invented! Anyway.
Threw Bleak House by Charles Dickens out of a window the first time I read it nearly to the end. Have read it a few times since, and I get it but I don't like it.
Agree on Ayn Rand too.
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Wed, January 30, 2008 - 6:46 PMAnything by James Fenimore Cooper (I haven't read it all thank God, but I know instinctively that it all sucks) Nathaniel Hawthorn, Emerson, or Thoreau. Knowing that they are becons of early American writing makes me sad to be an American. They are all self aggrandizing pricks. They seem like the guys who might seem really smart and appealing while your drunk at a party, but the next morning you're sober and lying in bed with next to one of them wanting to brand him on the face so everybody else knows to stay away. I particularly hate Thoreau's On Walden Pond. HE LIVED WITHIN SIGHT OF THE RAILROAD AND HAD PEOPLE BRING HIM SHIT! I wish he had died as an infant before he could talk and rip peoples souls out with his self righteousness. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Thu, January 31, 2008 - 4:32 PMhawthorne is actually an excellent writer, though i'm not a fan of the others you mentioned. check out wakefield, a story i tend to read every couple years. even better than andrei codrescu's version. -
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Re: Canonical classics that secretly suck
Fri, February 1, 2008 - 5:46 AMHawthorne, like most of his contemporaries, was a boring stuffy toad with a stick up his prissy proper arse. Three times during my school carreer I was forced to read the Scarlett Letter (vomits). The only thing worse than Hawthorne is Emerson.
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