God's Blessings often benefit all people. But many of His promises are only for His own children. If you're not sure that you're a part of God's family, He offers you this invitation. The way to Christ is simple:
1. Admit that you have a need.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:23
2. Believe that Jesus is God, the Son, who paid the wages of your sin.
For the wages of sin is death [eternal separation from God]; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23
3. Call upon God.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:9
King James Version
The Holy Bible
ISBN 978-1-58660-198-0
Barbour Publishing
www.barbourbooks.com
1. Admit that you have a need.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:23
2. Believe that Jesus is God, the Son, who paid the wages of your sin.
For the wages of sin is death [eternal separation from God]; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 6:23
3. Call upon God.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:9
King James Version
The Holy Bible
ISBN 978-1-58660-198-0
Barbour Publishing
www.barbourbooks.com
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 4:42 AMfuck your god. fuck any one who commands love and adoration of people he inflicts horrid pain on. his people rape and pillage and call it god's will without pity or doubt. -
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The way to Christ is simple, but boy can you get lost in translation...
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:11 AMLooks like 6 months of ignoring the hit-and-run proselytizer is over, and the other shoe has dropped. You'll have noticed that the original perpetrator isn't actually around to do battle, that he's joined the heavenly host, spending eternity yelling " 'luja!", or more likely, pushing up electronic daisies.
But since this is a literacy nerds tribe, I'll try to derail this towards at least some ob-lit reference. Translation is a bitch, well known fact, and many languages don't have an exact mapping of expressions and concepts. Given the choice, would you prefer a translator of a literary work to stick to the original, and translate a gem into a belly flop, or would you allow the translator sufficient liberties with the original that the meaning, if not the wording, sparkles in the target language? Of course, when you're dealing with the language of God, you shouldn't have such liberties, but then the obvious question becomes: why aren't we reading the bible in the original (whatever original can mean in this context), and how can a God accept an increasing ambiguation of His Word?
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 2:15 PMi'm an athiest...i swear to god!
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 4:20 AMI'd Just like to say that I'm sorry that the first thing most of you will see of me is this half-assed rant. For clarification's sake: I think Jesus was a sell guy, but his dad is a real prick. I normally don't attack people for their religious views, I feel that people take allot of time out of their lives to take crack at that whole god thing, and hopefully have found some thing that makes them happy. that's why I responded like that. I felt that post was disrespectful to all of us who have taken a long hard look at the world and decided that maybe "The way to Christ" isn't for them. Once again sorry.
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 7:18 AMThe way to Christ is extremely simple!
1. believe that all evil in the world is due to the fact that a woman ate an apple
2. believe that Jesus is and isnt and both is and isnt God
3. believe that a virgin received sperm from heaven and conceived
4. believe that Jesus` death was to clean your mess after you
5. believe that you gonna look great in heaven and not old and rotten as when you die
even my cat finds this simple alright!
By the way I love Jesus, but the church has kind of missed the point he wanted to make! -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 9:49 AMweeeelllll... i can't comment on the other points (4 and 5) but:
1) they both ate from the apple of knowledge (OK, she wheedled him into it ;) and the idea that the world would be a happy, happy place without knowledge is widespread (Rousseau among others). The bible is just another attempt to come up with an explanation that is as good (or as bad) as any other hypothesis. All we need to do to test the hypothesis is start massive-feeding apples to pithecantropes, and wait a few hundred millenia. And I should point out that it is not any (or all) women that are tarred, but only Eve; people conveniently forget Adam's first wife, Lilith, who had the good sense to keep her apple to herself ;)
2) that's an easy one, like the particle-wave duality. When getting answers like this, it means we are asking the wrong question, and the assumptions are wrong. Kinda like asking how a God can be both good and omnipotent. Perhaps we need to invoque a theological uncertainty principle here as well: you can be as good as you want, but as a consequence will be powerless, or you can be extremely powerful, but the goodness content tends to zero.
3) parthenogenesis - no sperm needed ;) -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 6:06 PMVery nice answers, thanks! Small problem about your parthenogenesis; That would mean the child being exactly as her, with all her genetic information, therefore not coming from God...
About the particle-wave duality: nice but it doesnt sustain the theory of God being an aglomeration of different attributes, often supposed to be inlimited. It leads obviously to contradictions, and I don`t think there`s a way around it. Only Buddhism has managed to do that, with the concept of no-Self. Actually it`s smarter that that, there`s no God! No-self, nothing to hold on to, no contradictions, no surface on which dust can gather. I am now looking foward to some Buddhist replies!
About the apples, you know the saying: one a day.... -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 2:27 AMYes, that's a bit of a sticker, Jesus supposedly being male and all that. Perhaps (reaches for straws) she just suffered from a bad case of hirsutism. As for her consequently not coming from God: we all know that women are divine ;)
So, how do we deal with " believe that Jesus is and isnt and both is and isnt God"? The wave-particle duality I used as analogy was to point out that there enough instances where depending on the question, an object will give a different answer as to its true nature, but when the question is poorly posed, it can only answer MU. Rather than admit to that, the desert religions seem to have chosen to go overboard on all possible attributes, but to me, that sounds like the same inability to reply, just wrapped in different words. I mean, between MU and 'omnipotent', I can only hear a tiny (acoustic) difference ;) I take a similar approach to the question of knowing whether there may be a God or not (MU), a self (certainly feels like it, but recent developments in neurology and questions surrounding intentionality and free will are pushing me towards MU), or whether any particular religion has got it any better than any other (MU, although I should more properly say that they've all got it wrong: the ducks did it).
But (pushes hard left to try to get the train back on some semblance of rails), my favorite view of religion has got to be Tom Robbins', and his comments about the relationship between desert religions and too much sun on a hot day. Mad dogs, Englishmen, and very obviously, prophets ;) -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 3:24 PMCould we talk about literature instead of um, Jesus and God and stuff?
How 'bout we talk about the Bible as literature? It is, after all, a pile of stories, and the stories compiled within it employ various literary strategies in order to present its various ideas. For instance, there are genre types: histories, cautionary tales, origin myths, folk tales, war stories, love stories, family dynasty stories. There are various devices: metaphors, allegories, jeremiads, rants, parallelism, intertextual references....
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 4:04 PMThank you Shannon,
We also shouldn't forget that it's impossible to be an educated reader of the English language without having some sort of grasp of the Bible and what it says. Argue all you like but there is no other work of literature (I use literature loosely here) that is as quoted, or alluded to as often as the Bible in the English language. From Chaucer to today, some knowledge of the Bible is essential to being a competent reader. -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 10:14 PMMaybe we should start a new thread: instead of "What book would you take to a desert island?", "What book would you most like to find in the drawer of your hotel table instead of the Bible if you were stranded overnight in, say, Lincoln, Nebraska?"
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 3:26 PMI disagree that it's impossible to be an educated reader of the English language without having some sort of grasp of the bible.
Literature is as you define it and there are many enlightened works out there other than the bible that would offer you a broad, rich specturm of writing in your quest as 'an educated reader of the English language'. To perpetuate the obligation to read the bible, in my opinion, is to continue to focus on non-truths, or half-truths. A book written by a bunch of dudes a long time ago which is only pertinent because we cling to the past.
People have spent years re-interpreting the bible, created new religions over it - when there are just as many truths in current writing and of course, the world - everywhere.
There are so many bible thumpers out there today - we get the gist of it!
Why read the bible when you can use your time to tune into your own fresh this-just-in thoughts from god. Surely this would make you a better reader and writer...
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 6:38 PM>What book would you most like to find in the drawer of your hotel table instead of the Bible if you were stranded overnight in, say, Lincoln, Nebraska?"
Umm, a Farmers Almanac? Henry Miller's Air Conditioned Nightmare? Death of a Salesman?
Actually, I do think that it's important to read the Bible, not as a religious document--as a religious document, it's actually pretty depressing, and I pretty much feel like scrubbing my brain every time I read it. Rather, it really is one of the cornerstones of Western thinking. There's a logic--albeit a bizarre one--to the way that the US is behaving right now, for instance. It's not my logic nor probably yours. But the Bible has patterned a significant part of our national thinking, for better or worse. Just getting over it and thinking new stuff, much as I would like to, really isn't the answer. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: The way to Christ is simple
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 6:46 PMThat came out a little sharp, that last sentence, and isn't entirely what I meant. I'm not like ordering everybody to read the Bible right now. It was more along the lines of understanding who we are as people and Americans, in a liberal enlightenment sort of way.
The other thing is, it's not what most people think it is. Read as literature, it's a very weird and interesting read--messy, contradictory, very much the documentation of the lives of displaced desert people over a several hundred year period. And the other thing that's important to know about it is that the way it's so often used as a weapon in public discourse isn't really how it works at all. In other words, people who use the Bible as a way of imposing moral standards on others do so by pulling passages drastically out of their original context. And it really helps to know what that original context is to counter that sort of thinking.
What astonishes me most is how few people who profess themselves to be devout Christians actually bother to sit down and read the Bible in its entirety. I'm not entirely sure how most of them could go on believing if they did. -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 3:06 AMSo there you have it, folks - imperative background reading for a clear understanding of a fair percentage of Western literature and (woe is me) politics, yet cumbersomely unsuitable as any sort of practical guide to life (and hopefully no such book will ever exist - what a sad world it would be then), the thing that makes the Bible the Bible, different from and more dangerous than most other books, is that it is the words are thoughts of God himself. If publishers could convince readers they'd come up with another one like that, the industry itself could be saved tomorrow.
I try to imagine being called a witness and swearing on, say, a copy of The Great Gatsby. Or maybe nonfiction would be a better example: Hmm. Can't think of anything.
Michelle: "... there are just as many truths in current writing and of course, the world - everywhere"
- I have to agree with that, though. Shannon's saying it's an important read for understanding contemporary culture... but Michelle seems to hint at a fine line between the lens you read through and perpetuating the thing you examine by use of the lens itself. -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 5:06 AMIt is a good read.
And I don't often read fiction. But if there's nothing else around, the Bible will keep me occupied.
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:55 PMi would totally swear on a Copy of The Great Gatsby. it would make me feel worse about lying than if they used a Bible.
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 2:53 PMIf one doesn't have at least a base understanding of the Bible and Christianity (main ideas here) and you live in the western world, you will spend a lot of your time very confused. to look at the Bible as a piece of literature is completely different than to look at as a religious text. If you don't have some understanding of the Bible, it is literally impossible to understand many important allusions. I also think it's a good idea to have a decent grasp of some Greek and Roman classics. If one knows nothing about the Bible then you'd be left wondering things like "Why would Toni Morrison call a book Song of Solomon? What does that have to do with anything?" Particularly early works of the English language. Paradise Lost is a spectacular literary monument, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense if one has read Genesis.
Beyond that, all literature builds on what has already been written, and the more widely read something is, the more it will be utilized by future writers. Because the Bible is undeniably the most widely read book in the English language, it would only make sense that it has had the greatest amount of influence on other writing. The cumulative affect is what has become so pronounced.
i also have to admit, that I am most definitely a post modernist, and I believe that whatever is written today, is only possible because of what has been written before. In this sense, the Bible is the most important piece of literature in the English language. I should also admit that I haven't read the whole thing. I've read most of it, but there are parts of the Old testament I haven't slogged through yet. -
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Re: The way to Christ is simple
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 6:28 AM"If one doesn't have at least a base understanding of the Bible and Christianity (main ideas here) and you live in the western world, you will spend a lot of your time very confused."
- ... and, if you do, you'll spend even more of your time confused! :) -
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Huh?
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 8:01 AM"If one doesn't have at least a base understanding of the Bible and Christianity (main ideas here) and you live in the western world, you will spend a lot of your time very confused."
But why stop at the Bible - without a base understanding of: Greek mythology, the history of the Mediterranean basin (including the fertile crescent), philosophical developments since the Greeks (at least), the interplay of history, economy, science, technology and art over the same period and geographic area, (and to bring the focus on literature) classical authors, the Torah, Rabelais, Shakespeare, la chanson de Roland, Dante, any amount of trivial and popular literature, etc., etc., which weaves a complex web from which any author worth her salt has liberally plucked the flies, how can one understand much of what goes on, artistically, politically, philosophically, scientifically? And why not include the same mess from the rest of the world, with all the equally rich cultures and histories, all the more so in English, where pretty much every culture has contributed to literature? Where does one stop?
"- ... and, if you do, you'll spend even more of your time confused! :) "
to paraphrase: does understanding and knowing all that actually help avoiding being confused? (probably only if one can synthesize it into a coherent ensemble - could somebody recommend a good book that would do that, please? ;)
I'd say that this background knowledge may help understand contexts, nuances, allusions, but I am not convinced that one can't enjoy most literature almost as much in vacuum, without reference to external cultural landmarks. When an author compares her lips to rose petals, do I need to know that another author thought that they are instead similar to petunias, or that some alleged word of a god considers them to be apricots? I gorge myself on Rushdies prose, even if I don't know much more than a rat's whisker about any of the mythologies that appeared on the subcontinent, and devour Murakami although I have only the faintest knowledge of the numerous inputs that shaped his mind. I'd argue that too much emphasis is placed on the impact of the Bible, especially when looking at contemporary literature, where so many other influences play a larger role, and where that one book's influence has been greatly diluted by passing through so many other author's creative digestions. -
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Re: Huh?
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 9:58 PM<<<to paraphrase: does understanding and knowing all that actually help avoiding being confused?>>>
The more you know, the more you can be confused about - Albert Gingenheim -
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Re: Huh?
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 8:07 AMWho knew this discussion would turn interesting?
I'm all yeah! Get a clue about the literary foundations of your own western heritage! No yeah, get a clue about the literary heritage of the entire world and quit overrating the position of Christianity within it. Read Inanna! Read The Golden Ass and the Aethiopica! Read the Upanishads, and Nizami and Li Po! Read Gilgamesh along with Genesis,and some Egyptian love poetry along with the Song of Songs, so it can hit you smack between the eyes just how much of it was borrowed from prior cultures. -
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Re: Huh?
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 2:16 PMShannon...no argument read. simply read.
I just picked up W James Pragmatism (by accident). This relativist is really enjoying the lovely way he puts it.
Who knew?
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