i am one of those who have not read a word of Harry Potter... with so many wonderful books to read and a very satisfied reader without them... am I really missing something?
also, should I just nod and smile (and therefore pretend by omission) when people assume I have read them... it seems like stating the above in a crowded room just creates an unnecessary ruckus...
or should I take this to the Free Advice tribe?
also, should I just nod and smile (and therefore pretend by omission) when people assume I have read them... it seems like stating the above in a crowded room just creates an unnecessary ruckus...
or should I take this to the Free Advice tribe?
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Re: one in a million
Thu, August 2, 2007 - 10:58 AMThey're fun. Not great. I got bored by the 3rd book and gave up by the 5th, but the first several are some fun quick reads. -
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Re: one in a million
Thu, August 2, 2007 - 10:54 PM
If you're not a fan of the fantasy genre, I can understand how HP would be a difficult read. The further you get into the series the more complex the the plot becomes, the more adult the themes, and the more willing you have to be to fully immerse yourself in his world.
I began reading the series six years ago, hoping to disprove the hooplah and argue knowledgably with the folks comparing it favorably to JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis, and Mark Twain. Instead I got hooked and have found the books very enjoyable. However, it is certainly not for everyone. -
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Re: one in a million
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 12:26 AMI think you hit it on the head... fantasy is not my genre.
as far as thinking it is not worth reading (from the other poster), i don't think that's where I am at... as I said, I just have so many other things to read, it has not even made it on my list.
I read Tolkein when I was ten or eleven and continued to reread it well into my twenties... but that was about it for fantasy for me.
what am I reading these days? going back to reread through holes of some of my favorite authors... for instance George Elliot. Turns out I only read Middlemarch, which I greatly enjoyed, but am now on Silas Marner. I suppose I am reading my way through the penguin classics I haven't read so far and also the Modern Library list of 100 best novels etc...
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Re: one in a million
Thu, August 2, 2007 - 11:00 AMTell us about all those wonderful books. I'm having difficulty finding good books to read. And not having read a word of HP, why the assumption it is not worth reading? Popularity? -
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Re: one in a million
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 8:42 AMNot so much an assumption as an attempt, in my case. I honestly tried to read the first book, wondering what all the hoopla was about, and failed miserably. I found many reasons to fault the book, but for me, the main reasons have to be the mixing of levels, of fantasy and reality, and the very ad hoc nature of the fantasy at that, the clichéd nature of many of the situations and props. It's escapism in the bad sense of the word, the wish that the world would be more magical. The standard I hold it against is Ursula LeGuin's treatrise on fantasy and science fiction, in which she explains cogently why Tolkien has depth (depth of personaility, of plot, of richness of texture).
That, and the marketing machinery, which really turns me off.
On the plus side, it seems to have gotten many people to have a look at printed words. Progress of a sort. -
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Re: one in a million
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 9:31 AMI read the first one and enjoyed it but wouldn't rave about it and very quickly got bored of the second. The terrible puns appeal to my sense of humour (Diagon Alley) but that's about it. It's important to remember that they were written for children and it's a little harsh to judge them against the greats of fantasy and sci fi. They do deserve praise for their ability to appeal to pre-teens, teens and adults alike and it's not a bad thing if parents and children can share a literary experience.
More than the books I enjoyed the idea of JK Rowling inventing the stories for her daughter and getting fame and fortune almost as a side effect, particularly given her personal circumstances. I'd agree that the corporate machine has the teeth of its cogs firmly sunk into this series but I think we should all be grateful that children all over the world are mithering their parents and queuing until dawn for books.
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Re: one in a million
Fri, August 3, 2007 - 1:37 PMok, so they are not great, but fun, if you like fantasy. so, i think i can live without them.
now, the second part of the question-- should i just let people (who know I read a lot) assume I have read HP as they initiate a conversation with me with "so, have you finished it yet?" ... I usually just say "no.... not quite" and try to lead the conversation to what they liked or when they got it and when they finished it and the merits/demerits of books on tape, etc...
of course, if discussions of any of the characters or names or such come up, i am completely lost (i think i heard the term "mugwarts" when the xbox game was first popular... that is the only term i might have heard, but even if i recall the term accurately, i have no idea what a mugwart is)... oh and isn't there a character (significant?) named hermione? or some such?
i.e. should i just read HP for Dummies and get it over with?
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Re: one in a million
Sat, August 4, 2007 - 8:41 AMHmmm... I'm tending towards honesty is the best policy on this one. It's easy to get away with pretending you've read Ulysses as the chances are the person you're talking to has either never opened it or given up round about the same place you did. It's a dangerous game pretending you've read a book that half the world has read, particularly if there are any 8 year olds in the room.
You could try and blag it and just watch the films but then there's always the danger that the said 8 year old will quiz you on an event that was cut from the film. On mugwarts you're possibly getting confused between Hogwarts (school for budding wizards) and muggles (non magical humans.) See... I'm no expert but any kid worth their salt would pull you to pieces.
The tactic I'd suggest would be to take the literary high ground and ignore the phenomenon (it will go away in 10 years or so.) If anybody bugs you about it tell them that they and their kids should have moved on to Salinger by now.
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Re: one in a million
Sun, August 5, 2007 - 11:04 AMI'll side with Miker here: take the literary high ground. It's what I do, and although I come across as a curmugeon, isn't that better than people thinking you would read something like HP?
I'm in two minds about what Miker and I have opined about HP above - I've had the same reaction in the past when I indicated that I did not consider HP to be high literature, and I think it is due to the mixing of two areas: literature and sociology. From the point of view of literacy (oops, checks tribe name), of course, almost any book is worthwhile encouraging people to read, but that naturally doesn't say anything about the literary merit of the corresponding book. I guess the real question is, will the readers of HP graduate to Salinger, and on from that? For children, very possibly. For adults, I'm much more doubtful... -
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Re: one in a million
Mon, August 6, 2007 - 8:25 AMI love Harry Potter, and I think the series is well worth reading.
I'm not sure what 'high literature' is. Do you mean canonical, michael, or something more like edifying? I strongly resist the idea of literature as having some sort of use value or edifying qualities. I also wonder about the assumption that the series can't possibly be worth reading because it's hyped. As for not seeing the value of fantasy, I tihnk that there is no genre that better approaches the ambiguities of human experience, or the deep human truths to be discovered in that which society places on its margins.
I have issues with Rowling. Her unacknowledged borrowings do grow a bit tedious, and the latest is no exception. Her prose can be clunky, and in a way she never goes far enough, never quite pushes us into the emotionally stark, strange places that the best fantasy does (well, except this last book, which accomplishes that so well in places I hope she starts writing for adults, or at least young adults.)
But I love the way she builds worlds, and characters. I love her subversiveness, and the springy wit of her descriptions (no movie version has yet captured her wit). I love the fact that all adults--even the most sympathetic ones--are unreliable and sometimes operate from mixed motives.
And, less tangibly, I get swept into her world, go to that not-here-but-there place that I used to go into when I was a kid. There aren't very many books that do that for me anymore. Come to think of it, I can't think of one single canonical, academically-approved, literary novel that has that same effect. Well, except actually maybe old potato head Beckett, strangely enough, or Flann O'Brien. And even then, I'm so distracted by the cleverness of the prose--the 'literary' qualities, that I never do quite suspend. -
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Re: one in a million
Mon, August 6, 2007 - 9:40 AMI always find it a bit difficult to discuss art, beyond talking about individual preferences. But nevertheless, I believe there are certain commonalities that 'good' works of art share (be it literature, visual art, sound), and - to my mind - these encompass aspects like complexity of plot, of character, mastery of language, avoidance of trite or common expressions and presence of formulations that appear like fresh snow, a sense of the author having digested prior work, of having a recognizable individual voice. Criteria change, and previous giants sometimes turn out to have been dwarfs on plateau shoes; I certainly won''t claim better vision than others, but if a work of art doesn't surprise me, doesn't trigger some combination of brain & gut reactions, I can't imagine it'll be here for the long haul.
My readings rarely follow the cannon (although some of it matches), and the earlier edification goes out the window, the better (except perhaps in the sense of: expose readers to as many thoughts and moralities as possible, and let them make up their own mind). I don't care whether a work of fiction is 'fantasy', 'SF' or some other category. I do care whether it challenges or bores me, whether it's a quick, forgettable read or something that I will savor slowly, that will stick in my throat, that I'll remember and come back to. I'm attracted by non-linear narrative, magical realism, unexpected hooks, concepts taken to their logical conclusion and then spun on from there (wouldn't want to fill this with my preferred authors, which are anyway listed in my profile), and I found Rowlings first book too linear, too predictable, too straight-forward. The fact that it's hyped... well, to be honest, I *am* allergic to marketing machines, which doesn't necessarily say anything about the qualities of the book, but I think does say something about the mind set of the author. To really emit an opinion on her, I would of course have to read more than I did...
From your description, I should perhaps have a look at Rowlings last book (I probably will, as soon as somebody pushes it into my hands), but the issues you say you have with her tripped me up from the beginning. The whole structure of book 1 (as far as I got) was just too ad-hoc, hey let's magick this into existence, too cheap tricks, too easy. I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, and if people enjoy her, fine. In your case, it seems to have done much more than that, which is wonderful, and something few authors manage for me either. I can only encourage readers of HP to look at alternatives afterwards, who might be able to pull off something similar (or better, I hope).
But perhaps we should take this discussion to another thread - is there a difference in people's minds between 'high art' and 'low art'? Or does it all boil down to 'I like it, so it is true art'? Is there a range, and how does one position a work on that range? Should one even do that? Does mastery of the craft enter into it? Does genius? Does popular acclaim? If a piece of art is created in the forest, and nobody sees it, can it be a masterwork? Does the artist know what she is doing? Does it matter?
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Re: one in a million
Tue, August 7, 2007 - 4:48 PMI read hella fantasy; I was raised on the OZ books and the Hobbit stuff; my newest faves are the Orlando epics and Chinese epics (like Journey to the West and Outlaws of the Marsh).
I was dragged to a couple of the HP movies and found them BORING. So Ive never had an interest in the books. My reading list is long enough.
I find militant HP fans to be very annoying. reading kiddie books is cool. but when they brag about reading _____ in 12 hours and its a book written for 4th graders (publisher recommended age 9-11) its questionable.